Last week, legal scholar and author Patricia J. Williams delivered a series of talks at Washington University. The great granddaughter of a slave and a white Southern lawyer, Williams is known for her explorations of racism in America. She is a law professor at Columbia University, which refers to her as “one of the most provocative intellectuals in American law.” Williams sat down with The St. Louis American to weigh in on legal issues in Ferguson.
The St. Louis American: Currently in Ferguson, there are a lot of ordinances and legal issues in question. Arrested protesters are being charged the maximum bail amount. Police are enforcing a “five-second rule” against standing still while protesting. What is your opinion of these tactics?
Patricia Williams: The measures that the police have deployed to keep peace, as they put it, have been spectacularly wrongheaded. They seem almost designed to ramp things up. There are techniques that have been tried and true in terms of allowing people to burn off steam and express themselves.
You saw a little bit of that the second or third day when the Missouri State Highway Patrol came in. They were using classic techniques in de-escalating confrontation. Poking people to keep them walking is not among those techniques. Hiding their badges is not among those techniques.
I’d be interested to know why the police think they are doing something to keep the peace, when in fact, I think they need to be better trained to allow people their First Amendment rights. Not shaking up the bottle and then putting a cap on it.
The St. Louis American: The Department of Justice Civil Rights Division has been in Ferguson for several weeks. What role can and should the federal government play in this situation?
Patricia Williams: The Department of Justice has an oversight rule. There is a lot of excuse-making. There is no question that these are bad policies and practices and police behaviors. I understand that you may be under staffed. I understand that you have a series of small towns with police departments that are thin in numbers and who may not be well trained. That is no excuse.
So where there has been no oversight, you need someone to perform the oversight, instead of delaying the policies that need to be instituted to make things better. All of this is before you get to the real provocation of having huge tanks and people absolutely untrained to use machines of war in the streets of small towns like this. That is stunning, both acquisition and lack of training.
The St. Louis American: What can we expect if the grand jury does not decide to bring criminal charges against Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson?
Patricia Williams: I’m sure there will be people upset, but usually there aren’t nearly the riots that white communities are afraid of – that there’s going to be a slave uprising. We are so afraid in this country of the next new slave revolt. I am less concerned about that. I am more concerned about the fact that if he’s not indicted, we will have yet another statistic of lack of accountability.
Again, it depends on the investigation and the evidence, but I think it will be perceived as the officers and those designed to protect are never held accountable for the deadliest of their actions, whether intentional or accidental. If someone hits someone accidentally with a car, they can still be prosecuted for manslaughter. The idea that this happens so frequently and carelessly is a statistical worry that far exceeds whether Darren Wilson is indicted.
The St. Louis American: One young male protester called this movement “a young black man’s war.” What do you think of that statement?
Patricia Williams: It’s a reference to the patrolling of public spaces. It’s about confining geographies. Public protest gets redefined as unrest. For the most part, this has been a peaceful demonstration. But I think this is a concern that affects all kinds of groups. A lot of people feel embodied as Michael Brown. People should not forget that these protests are quite integrated. This is a mothers’ movement. This is a family movement.
